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Table of Contents for this issue:
Open Transport and MAC IIcx/7.5.5 Compatible?
Re:screen for PB170?
best deals on PowerBook RAM.
Old Mac, newer hard drive
Changing LC475 Battery
IIfx help
Re: Color Classic and LC upgrades

Dead Color Classic
Screen stretcher?
Dark Castle
Re: Fixing Sound Problems
B/W screens etc.
CyberFinder etc
IIcx and Live Objects
Re: Plus & Zips
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.2
Re: couple questions
re: Toaster Games
Re: old system software.
Re: Classic Macs Digest 11.16
Mac plus Zip
sys 6.0.8 from ftp2.
Repost: Virtual Monitors
Classic Parts & Cables Avail
Re: DayStarred Mac II, > 8MB?
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.2

Subject: Open Transport and MAC IIcx/7.5.5 Compatible?
From: Todd Griffith

I have tried installing OT 1.1.1 and started having intermittent DNS failures. I tried OT PPP 1.0 with OT 1.1.1 and could not get to work DNS wise at all. I use MACTCP 2.06 and MACPPP and it works reliably. If OT is the future, is it going to work for me?

My System: Mac IIcx 20/100/zip/netscape3.01/no VM/7.5.5

Thanks for any resonses in advance!

Todd Griffith

Subject: Re:screen for PB170?
From: Ken Walend

Does anyone know a source for a new screen for a PB170? I was given one in perfect working order except for a cracked screen.

DT&T; (800-622-7977) had parts at good prices (~1/2 Apple) for my PowerBook 160. We didn't find all the problems first try, but they worked with me until all were fixed, and they give same-day turnaround. There's no kickback, but it'd be nice if you let them know I sent you, since they went the extra mile for me!

Subject: best deals on PowerBook RAM.
From: Ken Walend

Check with TechWorks for best deals on PowerBook RAM.

Most recent copy of MacWeek lists some ridiculous RAM prices from OtherWorldComputing at (800) 275-4576, starting at 1 MB 30 pin 80 NanoSecs for $9.75; 32 Mb 72's are $199! I can recall when these were thousands!

The sad fact is that PowerBook RAM has NOT dropped in price because of its proprietary configuration. The lowest prices on my PB160 wish list are 8MB/$235 and 10MB/$279 from Data Memory Systems a month or so ago (800-662-7466). Most are $100+ MORE!

Subject: Old Mac, newer hard drive
From: Dennis Ducklow

I have an old Mac Plus that is for my son's use and a newer LC 520 for myself. One day I attached the 50mb hard drive from the Plus to the LC. The problem occurred when I later realized that the Plus would no longer recognize the hard drive. Apparently, in connecting to a newer computer, I destroyed something in the drive and it is not repairable.

Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions?



Subject: Changing LC475 Battery
From: Allan Atherton

I got a new battery for my LC475 from Radio Shack, but could not get the black box off of the old battery on the logic board. What is the trick to this?

Allan Atherton, Louisville, KY

Subject: Vaseline
From: Allan Atherton

A few comments: The sound problem also plagued some IIsi machines. Someone wrote an fkey called something like iisi-sound-fix or something which sent a couple of beeps to the speaker to revive it electronic means. (check info-mac).
Someone posted to the net saying that if you used steel wool to clean the contacts then you'd make the problem potentially worse because this would corrode the metal even more. They suggested cleaning the contacts with an eraser (not the pencil kind - but the ink kind (you know how they sell those ones with a pencil eraser at one end and a pen one at the other?)). Then, dob some petroleum jelly (vaseline) on the contacts - don't worry, I haven't been electrocuted yet! :) I believe this vaseline trick also helps to start cars whose battery connections are suspect.

I think vaseline is the wrong material because it is non-conductive. It is used on battery terminals after they have been bolted together, to exlude air and slow corrosion. If some grease is to be used on electric contacts, it should be conductive, aka dielectric. I use a dielectric silicone grease on my trailer hitch plugs. I don't think I would use it in my computer.

Allan Atherton, Louisville, KY

Subject: IIfx help
From: blaze

I have a IIfx that has a QuickSCSI card. This card needs a special driver to mount it. I found this out after I booted from an external HD that didn't have the driver. After several weeks of looking for the driver on the net I got it and now when I use the software for the QuickSCSI card it says data on the HD is currupted and it cant mount it. I tried verifing and updating the driver but it kept giving me errors. My question is two fold:

1. Is there any way to get back my drive short of formating it?

2. If I do erase it I have the option of either formating it or initializing it, whats the difference?


Subject: Re: Color Classic and LC upgrades
From: System Administrator

even with the 33Mz accelerator and FPU I have in the PDS slot it is not much faster than my old Plus.

Probably because you're running in color modes 8-) If you're in 256 color mode, the Color Classic has to hump around eight times as much screen information as the Plus. Also, it has to mess with palettes and large screen blits as colors start to run out. AAMOI, I think the Color Classic has a modified off-the-shelf (PC) SVGA ASIC in it; although I don't recognize the device on the board, I /do/ recognize the way it switches into a 320x200 mode when it's hard-reset!

Does an '040 accelerator make sense for this machine, given the CC's older ROM and narrow data path?
Also, is there any work around for the 10 meg RAM limit?

The answers to these questions are related. The 10Mb limit is a restriction of the addressing logic on the mainboard. Your accelerator has its own memory addressing circuit, and its own memory sockets. The upgrade (a) will not suffer from the 10Mb limit, and (b) will have full 32-bit access to RAM on the accelerator card. SCSI, ROM and video RAM will be subject to the 16-bit bottleneck, but SCSI is way slower than 16MHz anyway (1.25Mbit/sec I think on the Color Classic), and ROM ops will be assisted by the 68040's code cache.

You don't say what accelerator you were using, but I presume from your question about the 10Mb limit that it doesn't have onboard memory sockets. Not such a good buy 8-)

And what machines can use the '030 33Mz accelerator

The Color Classic has an LC-PDS slot. The card should work fine in an LC or LC II, maybe an LC III.

Subject: Upgrading an LCIII
LCIII's out there, I'm sure there will be a ton of third party upgrade options." Well as far as I can tell, there aint. Or is there? Would a PDS card for a LCIII work?

MacRapide lists the DiiMO 030 accelerator for the LC III, which is a 50MHz 68030, 128K cache, and FPU. WARNING! There are apparently two versions of the DiiMO 030, one for Mac II series and one for LC III.

I'm presently running System 7.1 (along with System Update 3.0) on the LC. I assumed that going up to system 7.5.5 would chew up too much memory and slow down the machine too much. Am I correct?

I run 7.5.3 on my Color Classic (6Mb RAM/RAMDoubler/CD-ROM drive) mainly because it came on the Symantec C++ 8 CD-ROM and I assumed this means SC++ 8 doesn't work properly without it 8-) It works acceptably for me.

Subject: Dead Color Classic
From: Mark or Leigh DeHart

Help! My Color Classic has gone down, and the repair shop I took it to can't figure it out. It is just plain dead - no response to the power-on button on the keyboard (the keyboard works fine elsewhere). The shop checked the power supply - it was fine. They told me it was the logic board, and ordered and replaced it, but it still didn't work. They then told me that it was the analog board, and swapped it out, but again it still didn't work. They have given up, and told me that I can pick it up.

Has anyone else out there had similar problems with a Color Classic? Any ideas as to what the problem might be? A couple of notes: (1) the battery was acting up, and may be gone, but I wouldn't think that would inhibit startup; (2) I added a DayStar Accelerator a couple of years ago (as I recall, it was a 33 Mhz '040 w/FPU). Any possibility that either of these could contribute to the problem?

Thanks for your help.
Mark DeHart

Subject: Screen stretcher?
From: System Administrator

Back in 1991 or so I remember finding a utility on our uni servers which was freeware or shareware, and called something like "Stretcher". It was a cdev which would tinker with the CRTC in a Plus or SE and expand the screen- not just a larger virtual desktop, but actually more pixels on the tube face. I remember the blurb described it as "The amazing hardware screen expander for Macintosh".

Does anyone remember this utility? I have it on a special Amiga proprietary Mac emulator format disk somewhere but can't find it. I'd really like to test it on my SE.

Subject: SE/30
From: glaston

I recently got hold of an SE/30, no manuals, no system disks, no peripherals. My wife would like it to be a kitchen Mac, for some sort of cooking database and a PIM or at least a name and address program. I don't think she plans to print anything, but that might be a later option. I don't know anything about this little guy, except that he is quite appealing, as I am a PowerClone person. A couple of questions leap to mind: What is the latest system a SE can use and where do I get it? Will this guy only accept 800K disks?

Can anybody identify and source cooking or recipe software that the SE will run?

How about an address book and calendar or a PIM?

When I tried to put the shareware address book from the PowerClone onto the SE, it offered to re initialize my disk. Was this because it was a 1.4meg floppy?

TIA for the help

Glastonbury Tor

Subject: Dark Castle
From: mbridges

Does anybody out there remember Dark Castle for the older B&W; macs? It blew me away when I saw it years ago. ('88 or '89)

I was hoping to track down a copy of it. Any info would be appreciated.

mark bridges

Subject: Re: Fixing Sound Problems
From: EL

A few comments: The sound problem also plagued some IIsi machines. Someone wrote an fkey called something like iisi-sound-fix or something which sent couple of beeps to the speaker to revive it electronic means. (check info-mac).

The easiest most effective way to fix this problem is to by-pass the speaker entirely by plugging in an external speaker. In my case, I patched a 1/8" plug and cord to a RCA type cord and jacks and plugged it into my stereo.

You don't have make your own, radio shack sells them.

You can also record from the stereo by plugging a similar cord into the microphone jack on the MAChine and headphone jack on the stereo.

Works great! Enjoy! (My CD-Rom is also patched to the stereo, so I'm listening to Niel Young as I write this,

Eric the Web Wandering Wonderer

IIsi w/fpu 17 meg ram, 13"Color and Grayscale portrait, 1.75 gig HD's, 4X CD-Rom, 33.6 modem, Ram Doubler, CPU Doubler, MacOS7.5.5

Subject: B/W screens etc.
From: reguLated wAnd

Mode32(7.5) and 16MB RAM. There may be "bigger" problems with the box: it boots up in black-and-white everytime - I can go into monitors and change it back to color - I've

You probably have a dead battery. This means that you'll have to re-configure *everything* stored in PRAM every time you boot up if you want your machine to run smoothly.

Anyone know what cell the MacIIcx uses?

Subject: CyberFinder etc
From: reguLated wAnd

Until I'm saved up for a Power Mac, it looks like I'll have to do w/ my LCII running system 7.1 w/ 8RAM, Ram Doubler, 100 HD.

My question is, I would like to try the CyberFinder bookmark utility, but unfortunately it requires a minimum of System 7.1.1 (Pro), which I'm unable to locate.

I think I might have a few suggestions, etc....

1) get Internet Config 1.3 with IceTEe (or however that's spelt)
-- You see, I've tried CyberFinder, and while the nice little icons are neat, it is much easier to use a program such as URL Manager or your NotePad to store bookmarks. CyberFinder slowed down my Color Classic considerably, and ate up a large chunk of RAM.

2) If you really want to run CyberFinder, get the threadsLib (thread manager) and the drag and drop manager from Apple's website -- I think that these are all you need to run it. (I think that's the config I originally tried it with.

Hope this helps.

Subject: IIcx and Live Objects
From: Curtis Taylor

Has anyone been able to succesfully install and use OpenDoc and Cyberdog on their dirty 32 bit Mac? I am using a Mac IIcx. At Apple's OpenDoc web site you can download a special version of their OpenDoc installer, because their normal installer crashes on the IIcx, SE, Plus, etc. Cyberdog's installer does the same thing. Once I did get OpenDoc on the IIcx, I didn't get far (because several Live Objects wouldn't run). I am using 7.1. I was using 7.5.3, but decided to go back for the IIcx. Also, does anyone know how to upgrade from 7.1 to 7.1.1? I noticed that Cyberdog 1.1's minimum requirement is OS 7.1.1.

Thank you,

Curtis Taylor

Subject: Re: Plus & Zips
From: Michael Jardeen

I didn't bother learning to to optimize the interweave ratio to get the maximum throughput for sustained transfers

Be frightened, be very frightened!! ;-)

I recently bought a Mac Plus for $49. A friend in my User Group gave me two old Hard Drives to restore and I kept the 80meg. Another friend gave me four 1meg SIMMs. I got to learn about that little resistor that you cut to get it to see all 4megs of memory. The hard drive went into an external case another friend loaned› to me! I am currently running system 6.0.8 and using Word 4.0 on it. My daughters use it to write papers on and them come down to my machine (Power 100) to print. When I get a colour printer for this baby I will put the StyleWriter 1200 on the Plus. Next step is to go to System 7.1! It s a fun little machine that still has some life in it. I don t think I could say that about an XT or AT. It s the INTERFACE stupid!!

Always Apple!, Michael

Subject: Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.2
From: Nicholas Kelly

There are tons of games that run on 9 inch screens. Prince of Persia, SimCity, RoboSport (very fun), Tetris, OIDS, Super Tetris, Spectre, Hellcats, ParArena, Spaceway 2000, Mission Starlight and more are all games that I run on my Classic II. Shareware favorites include Playmaker Football, Super Yahztee, Risk, StarRunner+, Munchies, Bert and more. Some more commercial games that came to mind were Monopoly,Scrabble, anda package I bought recently for about $25. It is called Mind Games by New World Computing. It has Backgammon, Bridge, Othello, Go, Chess, Chinese Chess, Gomoko, Checkers, Connect 4, and Renju.

All these will run on a 9 inch black and white screen with no problem. You can't get Doom or X-wing but come on!

Anyway here remember Dragon's Lair running on black and white screens! I wish I had that game again!

Sidenote, does anyone know where I could get a copy of or by the manual for 4-d boxing? I like this game. (It also runs on black and white) but it requires the manual to get in and I cannot find it. If anyone know where to get it let me know please.

Nicholas Kelly

Subject: Re: couple questions
From: toaster

Hi there, in referance to the posting in Classic Macs 11.15.2

does anyone know why I might be having trouble installing netscape 3.0 on MacIIcx? important gearhead info includes: 7.5 with Mode32(7.5) and 16MB.

Nav3 is a monster at the best of time...personally I've had problems with it crashing a bit until I finally got the amount of memory for it sorted. The box says it only needs 8MB but this is seriously pushing it...I finally found it ended up needing 28MB before running happily with a good suite of plug-ins. And with Shockwave and the rest it really needs about 40MB to be very happy and really reliable. Sounds like you need RamDoubler2.

There may be "bigger" problems with the box: it boots up in black-and-white everytime - I can go into monitors and change it back to color - I've covered the basics: zapped PRAM, reseeded the video card in a different slot, reloaded the OS - all to no avail.

The problem you have here is just old age. The mac has an internal battery which stores information on monitor settings, clock and other odds'n'ends. After a few years they eventually run down and need replacing. If you open up the mac and have a poke about your should find it. It is usually inside a plastic battery container. Just open the container and replace the battery which you should be able to get from a good mac dealer for about ú6 uk or ú8 us. Hope this fixes your problem.

Hope these help,


Subject: re: Toaster Games
From: toaster

I recently aquired a Mac SE/30.

Good on ya!

I almost immediately tried to load the most important software for any computer: GAMES! But I had some trouble because so many games require either color or a screen larger than 9" (the "Toaster" screen).

I was thinking...remembering when I had and LC with it's 12" monitor this problem was also common in that a lot of games keept asking for a res of 640x480, which was a major pain.

Games which I found that didn't mind where:

SimCity (Maxis)
MS Flight Simulator (Microsoft...I think I need a shower saying them)
F40 Persuit Simulater (Titus)
Lemmings (Psychosis)
Prince of Persia (Broderbund)
Spacward Ho (Delta Tao)
StarFlight II (Electronic Arts)
Civilisation (MicroProse)
Maelstrom (Shareware)
SimCity2000 (Maxis)
Asterax (Shareware)
Rescue (Shareware)
PGA Tour Golf (Electronic Arts)
Myst (Cyan)
Wolfenstein 3D (Shareware...kinda)
Angband (Shareware)
Moria (Shareware)

I hope that some of these also work on a 9" screen, as it was amazing that they did on a 12".

Hope this helps,


Subject: Re: old system software.
From: Andrew R Melnyk

At 8:50 PM 11/14/96, Joseph L. Puente wrote: Some folks posted about where to get old systems. The useful ones 6.0x, 7.x are on the apple server. However since I go back to the first 512K Mac, (still have it as 512KE with aDove board) I thought the 128 was underpowered and hung on to my Apple II+ a little longer, I have probably most of the systems from 1.0. So if you are desperate I could dig them out and ship disk images.

I need system 6.0.8 so I can boot my Mac Plus off of a ZipDrive. Can you help?

System 6 is available from Apple:


Subject: Re: Classic Macs Digest 11.16
From: ighahorseaid

my quest to become more familiar with the MACs I bought at a very good deal an SE with 2.5 megs of ram and a 20 meg hard drive and came with a [...] ... Can't install any version of Netscape

Ciao` Lidio,

My wife and I held onto a MicroMac '30/33MHz accelerated Mac SE which we use in the kitchen to access email and the Internet (it has 12 megs of USABLE RAM -- 4MB of physical RAM, and the rest supplied by Connectix "Compact Virtual 3.0" and is running System 7.0 *), plus storing recipes, phone lists, etc.

We were also not successful in getting Netscape 1.1N to install (Netscape needs Color QuickDraw to run, and may have other incompatibility problems as well).

So I tried all the browsers out there for the B&W; Macs, and the only two I was able to run RELIABLY on this SE was NCSA Mosaic 1.03, and MacWeb 1.1.1E. Of the two, MacWeb is much faster and will show the "text entry boxes" on Web or search engine pages. MacWeb however, will not normally load graphics (not a big hinderance, as the text comes through just fine, as well as the "alt" tags and link buttons). NCSA Mosaic is very slow, but shows graphics (albeit it loads them very slow), but no text boxes. So while we use both browsers -- MacWeb is our "default" Web browser on our SE. We only go to NCSA Mosaic when we want to see a graphic and do not want to start up the 840 or one of the PPC's.

This SE will also run Eudora Pro 2.1.4, Newswatcher, Fetch, TurboGopher, and First Class. We use MacPPP v. 2.1.2SD, and MacTCP v. 2.0.6, with no problems!

Come to think of it, does anybody know of any 1987 computer (the SE) able to successfully browse the 1996 Web?

Enzo Giobbe

Subject: Mac plus Zip
From: mbridges

I have been offered a MacPlus...1meg Ram and no hard drive. I'm not sure that the fellow giving me the machine can find his OS disks so my question is twofold.

1. Can you get a copy of pre 7.1 OS?
2. Can you run the MacPlus from a Zip drive?


Jack Cornell

I am running a Plus 4MB/800k with a Zip drive, but I don't think thatI'll be able to use it as Startup Disk. (Note that my Plus is a 512k with a logic board upgrade, and your mileage may vary.) I've ben tinkering with it for the past few weeks when I have time. I've tried a number of solutions to try to get it to function as one.

My next-best solution was to put 7.0 on a floppy, which the computer will boot from. Just make sure that you have the Iomega drive in the system Folder, and you can use the Zip as an external HD. I have run Clarisworks 3.0, and Eric's Solitaire Sample, though both are a "bit" slow. I use Macwrite and MacPaint, which are perfect, and I wish they would run on my PowerMac. (Backwards compatability, huh?)

Get more RAM, and get the software from Apple:

You can get MacWrite and Mac Paint at a wonderful site about early Macs at the Mac512k web pages:

Good Luck

mark bridges

Subject: sys 6.0.8 from ftp2.
From: Joseph L. Puente

I downloaded the disk images for 6.0.8 from apple and when I opened them up, they were just documents that wouldn't open up... not folders or anything.

do I need to use an ftp specific program like fetch to get this... it was pretty slow the first time.


Subject: Repost: Virtual Monitors
From: reguLated wAnd

To: I posted this about the time this list first went up, but it never seemed to make it into the bulk re-post.

Here it is again...

I was wondering if anyone knew of any virtual screens (a faked 13" monitor, for example) that actually work on a color classic.

I'm running Stepping Out II right now (I used to run it on a Mac + under sys 6) but it doesn't do comprehensive screen refreshes... I have to wiggle my mouse around to get the screen to update; and then it only updates the portion of the screen that is visible.

All the extensions/cdevs on Info-mac at the moment only do this for those big new (13" or larger) monitors.

Does anyone have any information that may help?

Subject: Classic Parts & Cables Avail
From: Jim Nicol aka Duke Skye Walker

Hello all. I'm an original Mac Classic. I was an original Apple Tech Rep for a major fortune 100 company. I started with the Lisa & converted her to a Mac XL then bought a Mac 512 and upgraded it to a Mac Plus then bought a Mac II in 1987 to which I have recently added a Sonnet 030 CPU upgrade. My latest additions are a PPC 6100 w/DOS, a PM7500 and a PB5300. Unfortunately these are in the process of turining into classics as I type! Still have everything in working order except I sold the MacXL to Sun Remarketing some years ago - darn it. By the way - yes I did start with an Apple II+ which I paid more for than either the Mac II or the PM7500!

To the point. I have lots of stuff I've collected thru the years to keep these systems running which I might be able to part with for proper consideration. I have: an original Mac Plus keyboard, mice, DB9 appletalk connectors, DB9 switch boxes, appletalk cable (not phone net), external floppy, Mac II display I/F boards, mice, trackball, Summagraphics graphics tablet, DIN appletalk connectors, ethernet I/F card, DOS 5.25 floppy drive & I/F card, hard drive cases, cables, 1mb SIMMs, SCSI cables, terminators, an original Apple Scanner (still works) and an original Apple CD drive, plus lots more unique items and other ods and ends. If anyone is looking for something drop me a line at: macnicol

Subject: Re: DayStarred Mac II, > 8MB?
From: Marconi

I have a Mac II w/o the FDHD ROM upgrade. It's running a DayStar 40-MHz '030 Universal Powercache. I've tried putting 4 MB SIMM's into bank B and I get the Chimes of Death on startup.

Forgive my asking but what's in bank 'A'? I believe the larger simms should be in bank A.

1 MB SIMM's. Because of a bug in the ROM (fixed in the fdfd upgrade) SIMM's larger than 1 MB cannot be used in Bank A. This is according to Guru, Connectix Corp's know-it-all freeware.

If you already have 4 meg simms in Bank A then perhaps one of the new ones is bad. It's a pain, but swap these out one at a time to test. If you already knew this, I didn't mean to insult you, it's hard to know who knows what from these messages.

If nobody stated the obvious, how would the newbies learn anything?

I've tried two different sets of PAL Simm's now, having thought that the first set had a bad one. But after two sets in a row not working, I have to suspect that somehow the Daystar accelerator is causing the problem. I was hoping to find someone with a similar setup here on Classic Macs.

The best lead I have so far was this:

Even though the accelerator has a built-in PMMU, the socket on your Mac II motherboard is not filled. I think this causes a problem. Back when I had my old Dove Marathon 030 accelerator in this machine I had to order a special $20 "fake" PMMU chip from Connectix to put into my PMMU slot in order to enable virtual memory. The chip was not a PMMU--just a dummy chip to fill the slot. Some technical explanation I don't remember was what Connectix told me. It worked fine, though. Never removed it when I got my Daystar board and everything still works. This problem may have been specific to the Marathon board, though.

I haven't had time to talk to Connectix yet.

Subject: Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.2
From: Benjamin Guansing

does anyone know why I might be having trouble installing netscape 3.0 on a MacIIcx? important gearhead info includes: 7.5 with Mode32(7.5) and 16MB RAM.

Are you sure you want to run Netscape 3.0 on your IIcx? It requires at least 12MB of RAM and about 8MB of HD space. I have tried Netscape 3.0 Gold on my IIci and find it too be too unstable to be worth it, i.e. it brings the whole system down. The only real advantage is that 3.0 can run Java. You can run Java on a IIcx with System 7.5 but it would be awfully sloooow.

--ben guansing

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