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Table of Contents for this issue:

Re: Classic Macs 21.9
Mac SE's and PC Memory
Browsers other than MacWeb?
TORX drivers/ Mac Plus fan
Compact Mac Case Opening
RE: ONE LAST TIME - MacPlus and HD problem
RE:Need Help Upgrading a MacPlus
RE: Classic Macs 21.9
Re: LC Lab Questions
Opinions on MicroMac Accelerators?
Accelerator Cards
Date stuck to 27 Aug 1956
Extensions manager
ONE LAST TIME - MacPlus and HD problem.
Plus and HD 20

Subject: Re: Classic Macs 21.9
Sent: 2/27/97 3:27 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: CurtHiker

Bret Fessenden: I just bought The Dead Mac Scrolls (1991, Larry Pina,
Peachpit Press) and maybe they have a solution. In the section on Hard
Disks, two possible solutions are noted. (Yes, one refers to HD 40 SC,
not 20). Maybe its worth a try.

Hardware affected: Any Apple HD 20 SC or Mac SE with an internal
Miniscribe 8425SA SCSI drive.

Syptoms: On startup, the 20 MB hard drive peeps twice, then you get a sad
mac and the desktop never appears.
Probable diagnosis: The 20 MB drive mechanism has a bad master directory

Solution: . . . if the reformat operation fails, reboot from a floppy
disk, and once the menu bar appears, hold down the mouse button. Holding
down the mouse button will often mount a drive in these case, even when
the format operation failed. If holding down the mouse button doesn't
work, but the Finder indicates This is not a Macintosh disk, Do you want
to format it?, click O.K.. If any of these procedures mounts the drive,
it'll be fine. . . .

Hardware affected: Any Apple HD 40 SC or Mac II with an internal Quantum
QA250 SCSI drive.

Syptoms: On startup, the drive spins but does not mount. If you boot from
a floppy disk and run Apple HD SC Setup Version 2.0 or later, you get a
dialog box that says, Drive selection failed, Unable to locate a suitable
drive connected to the SCSI port.

Probable diagnosis: The SCSI driver has been damaged or replaced by
optimizer software, protection software, or a generic SCSI utility.
Solution: Reinstall a suitable SCSI driver by updating the drive with
Apple HD SC Setup version 1.5 (not 2.0 or later). If this diagnosis is
correct, the drive will mount with all the data intact . . .

Good luck!
Curt Kiest

Subject: Mac SE's and PC Memory
Sent: 2/27/97 6:02 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: L.F.
To: cmpost,

Mac SE's and PC Memory

I'm not entirely certain how slow the memory can go for an SE before it
wigs out, but just finding the memory is usually a challenge. I ended up
having to use MacWarehouse (1-800-255-6227) to hunt some down; all of my
other catalogs skipped the baby Macs. I don't think that Mac memory is
even close to PC memory, and especially the SE's funky little SIMM chips.
I would try either MacWarehouse or one of the other web sites that sell
Macintosh memory to be safe. Also, if you choose to upgrade it yourself,
make sure you have a Torx T-15 screwdriver with a looo-oong length and a
case spreader or a suitable substitute.

Although Mac warehousse is a good source of software and hardware I
wouldn't reccomend them for buying memory instead try this site:

The last time I bought a 30 pin simm for my SE the price was $9 for 1mb Simm
The speed required for the SE is 120ns or faster altough I would buy 80ns
just in case you want to get an accelerator card(they require 80ns or

As far as PC memory goes, you can use it on a Mac. The Mac simply
ignores the extra chip (The 9th chip) on the Simm. But there is no reason
to buy a PC SIMM ,sometimes they cost more money because of the extra


Subject: Browsers other than MacWeb?
Sent: 2/27/97 9:51 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM

I recently got my IIsi at home hooked up with the local ISP (hooray!).
The software package that came with it included Netscape 3.0, which my
IIsi actually runs. It does a reasonably good job of browsing -- it
claims faster download times than Fetch -- but has a hard time keeping
up when I type URLs directly or mail from it. Shoot, even Word 6.01
can keep up with my 90 wpm. :-P

On the other end, I tossed MacWeb after about five minutes because the
publicly available versions don't support tables.

I guess what I want is a middle-weight browser. Something not as piggy
as Netscape 3.0, but not completely stripped down either -- something
that runs comfortably on a high-end classic (hey, there's an oxymoron
for you!). I don't need Java or all the cutesy plug-ins.

I used Netscape 1.2 a while back, and that might be just the thing --
if I can find it on the net. But I'll consider Explorer, any version,
if it isn't a hard drive/RAM hog & can keep up with my typing. Anyone
have experiences they'd like to share?

On a somewhat related note, is there any way to change the mailing
list address w/o unsubscribing & resubscribing? Now that I can hit the
net at home, I want to start reading this list there.


Subject: TORX drivers/ Mac Plus fan
Sent: 2/27/97 10:19 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: David Buchner

My 2 cents: I just bought a plain old from-the-hardware-store driver, and
used a serrated knife, Dremel cutter wheel, and vice grips to tear away
enough of the plastic handle to leave just enough shank sticking out to
reach in there.

(Incidentally, I did this to put a fan inside a Plus. Just screwed it to
some bracket or other in there, pointed up. Soldered its wires right onto
where the Mac power cord comes in. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone
else has done this and whether they think it did any good.

Subject: Compact Mac Case Opening
Sent: 2/26/97 11:09 PM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: David

I'm surprised with all this talk of opening Mac cases that nobody knows
how to open a compact Mac case without a "case-cracker". I've never used

Last year at my job site, we were preparing to donate a large number of
SE's and SE/30's to the local school system. Because of security issues, we
had to wipe the hard drives (using Norton WipeInfo) before releasing the
machines. On the machines that had a crashed hard drive, we had to remove
the hard drive to insure that no data could be retrieved. Myself and
another man opened about 125 cases in one day without using a

The trick is to lay the Mac face down with the bottom towards you. Then,
take your hands (hold them with the palms up using the heel of your
hands) and hit the sides of the case (right above the seam of the front panel
in the middle of each side of the case) with a reasonable force (you don't
have to hit it too hard). You won't hit it hard enough to hurt your hands (I
did over 100 of the "case cracks" myself that day!). I wouldn't have
believed it if it wasn't shown to me by the other man there(that's why I got
stuck doing the unscrewing and uncracking).

Try it. It does work.


Subject: RE: ONE LAST TIME - MacPlus and HD problem
Sent: 2/27/97 1:13 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: Scott Holmes
To: cmpost,

This is a continuation of a problem I have been trying to solve for three
months now, and it is being posted to Mac-Wizards and Classic-Mac:

So the Mac Plus can see and use ONLY MY 350 mag drive, and MY 6115 can see
and use all three, but I cannot get either of the two small drives to work
AT ALL with the Mac Plus.

Hi Bret,

You are describing the classic symptoms of a hard disk that has a
blown termpwr fuse.

The terminators on the SCSI bus require +5v power to operate.
Technically, every SCSI device, be it a hard disk, or Mac or whatever
should supply termpwr to the bus. That way, there is always at least ONE
device supplying power to the terminators.

Unfortunately, when Apple designed the Mac Plus, they did not wire
termpwr through to the SCSI port. If for some reason you have an
external SCSI device that does not supply termpwr, either because it is
jumpered incorrectly, or because it is faulty, then the device will not
be recognised by the Mac Plus, but it WILL work with any Mac that does
supply termpwr.

Some drives have a small fuse soldered to the PCB near the SCSI
connector. If the drive has been connected/disconnected from the SCSI
bus with the power switched on, then it is possible for the fuse to

Hope this helps.

Scott H

Subject: RE:Need Help Upgrading a MacPlus
Sent: 2/27/97 2:03 AM
Received: 2/27/97 12:03 PM
From: NeonGooch

Hey people,

A MacPlus with 4MB of RAM,
System 6.0.3,
Finder 6.1,An external single sided (400k) floppy disk drive,
A Quantum ProDrive 40MB external hard drive WITHOUT a case.

System 6.0.8,
Any better Finder,
An accelerator chip (or whatever will make it go faster),
A case for the hard drive,
Whatever software will get the hard drive working,

I know that you go to
<> to
get the system software, but it is on 4 separate disks of
about 600k each, and the files are compressed. How are you
supposed to install it on a computer that doesn't have a hard

Does the Finder automatically get upgraded when you upgrade the system


I was told that there is no way to accelerate a MacPlus.

False, but none are very practical, IMHO, because there is no slots in the

Is there a catalog of some sort that I can order older parts
and software? If so how do I get one? this place has been mentioned here before, I'm
waiting for stuff to arive (just ordered), the catalog is online. Or call
800-336-2334, or e-mail at or They should
be able to case that HD and get most anything for the Plus (even mouse balls
and rebuilt mice).

I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

Subject: RE: Classic Macs 21.9
Sent: 2/26/97 10:59 PM
Received: 2/27/97 12:04 PM
From: Jones, Paul B
To: cmpost,

Subject: LC Lab Questions
Sent: 2/26/97 12:34 AM
Received: 2/26/97 8:44 PM

Number 1. Can I turn the Sam Intercept Extensions off without knowing the
password?(I tried to throw it in the garbage but it would not let me)

Reset PRAM and start with Extensions OFF, if all else fails make a
floppy with 6.0.7 and reformat the Hard drives.

2. Was my instilation method ok, or will it cause problems down the line?

Install more memory!

3. What are some of the obvious programs I should have on the computers?


4. Where can I find GOOD Freeware and Shareware that can be ran with the
current memory capcity that I have on these computers?

5. How can I find out the amout of RAM and MEGS on the Hard Drive?

RAM is found in the About this Macintosh... in the apple menu, HD space
is given at the top of the main window when it is set to View by Icon.


Subject: External CD-ROM
Sent: 2/26/97 3:48 PM
Received: 2/26/97 8:49 PM
From: Steven Stewart

I ahve an external cd-rom drive maded by sony. Yet when I try to mount
cds in it the mac doesn't seem to want to. SCSI Probe finds the drive
fine and it is not conflicting with any other SCSI id. I do have the
Apple Cd-Rom Driver loaded on my Plus 170ex/4 but I was told it does'nt
mount any thing other than Apple Cd-Rom drives. Is this true? If so is
there a diver to mount non Apple CD-Rom? Or is it a limitation with my
machine? Please Help.

CDROM tool kit is a good choice.


Subject: Re: LC Lab Questions
Sent: 2/27/97 10:39 AM
Received: 2/27/97 5:08 PM
From: ehintz
To: cmpost,

Number 1. Can I turn the Sam Intercept Extensions off without knowing the
password?(I tried to throw it in the garbage but it would not let me)

Find the Sam Icon, and get info from the file menu. It's probably
locked-it was when I did something similar many years ago...

2. Was my instilation method ok, or will it cause problems down the line?

If I correctly understand your process-i.e. you booted on the
floppy and ran the installer, then your installation sounds OK. You might
want to check for extensions not compatible with sys 7 though.

5. How can I find out the amout of RAM and MEGS on the Hard Drive?

Ram can be found from the apple menu "about this macintosh" or
"about this computer", HD size by opening the drive and from the "veiw"
menu selecting "veiw by name". It will tell you space used and space
available, your disk size is the sum of these two numbers.


Edmund A. "Eddie" Hintz

Subject: Opinions on MicroMac Accelerators?
Sent: 2/27/97 5:34 PM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: Robert Eye

I am considering getting a MicroMac 68030 accelerator for my old
(but very much loved) Plus, but I have some questions I hope the
"gang" can help me with.

1. How good are they? Do you really get the performance boosts
they claim?

2. Do they use the Mac's system bus or do they bypass it?

3. What about using Virtual by Connectix to get up to 16 MB
virtual memory with these 68030 accelerators? How well does
this *really* work?

4. Are they reliable? Any body have one that's been chugging
along for years?

5. How difficult was it to install (Plus and Classic users only
need reply to this one).

6. Are you limited in max modem speed despite having a faster
processor? I assume that the faster processor does nothing
for the UART-to-bus transfer speed (assuming that you are
still limited to the 8 MHz system bus).

7. I already use a Kensington Mac System Saver unit to keep the
Plus cool; is there anything else I should do to reduce the
power supply burden? *IS* there an additional power supply

(I plan to only go to MacOS 7.1 max on this machine, so this is
not a problem.)

Thanks in advance.

Bob Eye

Subject: Accelerator Cards
Sent: 2/27/97 5:56 PM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: Steve Hanson
To: Classic Mac Digest,

I have a Mac IIci with:

32BM of RAM
500 MB Hard Drive
24 bit Video Card
8 bit Video Card
Two 13" Color Monitors
and a 2 X CD ROM Drive

It has served me well over the years, but it's beginning
to seem to be a little pokey these days.

I primarily use Free Hand 5.5 and Photoshop 3.0.
I know eventually I will have to make the leap to a
Power Mac, but I can't afford it just now. I also don't
want to part with my IIci. It would make quit a useful
second machine.

I see a few manufactures such as Sonnet and MicroMac
still make 68040 accelerator cards for the IIci, for about $400.
I've checked out their web sites and the specs on the cards.

They claim a 500% increase in processing power with their
80/40MHz, 68040 Chip, 128K Cache & FPU cards.
I think I could live with that for another year or so until I'm ready
to buy a new computer.

Has anyone bought such a card for their Mac IIci? If so, how
well did it enhance the performance of your machine? Did
you think it was worth expense?

I would appreciate any information you would care to share.

Thank you very much for your time.


Subject: Date stuck to 27 Aug 1956
Sent: 2/28/97 10:06 AM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: hoosier


Each time I reset My Classic II's date at the control panel, after shutdown it
will show again date 27 Aug 1956. Norton didn't find anything wrong.
I need your helpfolks.

Victor Soleman

Subject: Extensions manager
Sent: 2/28/97 1:12 PM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: Amitai Schlair

I've got a Plus, 4MB RAM, Sys 6.0.8, 40MB HD, Global Village TelePort
Platinum (terrific -- get one!)...

I just got MacTCP 2.0.6 and MacPPP 2.0.1 running nicely, and I'm looking
for a solid extensions manager so that I can make an Internet-only set, a
minimal set, a work set, etc... INIT cdev 3.0 does the job, sort of
(limited sets) -- but it does it by changing file types and crashes when
I try to invoke it on startup (not real helpful!). Extensions Manager 2.0
claims back-compatibility to System 4.x, but it crashes on startup too,
and -- get this -- it actually doesn't do anything. It plain doesn't
work. (!?!) Answer is pretty, but it can't load on startup or make sets.

Does anyone know of something that could help me out? Freeware,
shareware, boxware...?

Thanks in advance.
Amitai Schlair

Subject: ONE LAST TIME - MacPlus and HD problem.
Sent: 2/28/97 3:26 PM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: Marti Hansell

When you format the drive - what is the interleave?

For the older Macs it is best set at 3:1 rather than the default 1:1 which
works on the newer (faster) Macs.

Check that. It may solve the problems you describe.

Marti Hansell

Subject: Plus and HD 20
Sent: 2/28/97 5:16 PM
Received: 2/28/97 5:41 PM
From: George Crane

Bret Alan Fessenden wrote:
RE: HD 20 and Plus problem

In any case, I have spent three months trying to figure this
out, and I have spent $30 for the drives together, but ANOTHER
$50 on cables, terminators, etc. trying to get them to work...

You may not like my answer because it doesn't solve your problem in the way
you want it solved. Perhaps you need to step back from this and reconsider
your definition of ludicrous. Why waste three months worth of worry, $80+
and all of our eyestrain on those little 20MB antiques? Even if you get
them working, how long do you think they'll last? Probably not too long.
They may be classics and real lovable and all that, but they definitely
have a finite lifespan. This will anger your friend just as well as all
the other delays. Why not just buy a newer drive of some sort, hook it up
and be done with it. You say that "even if I buy 30 more drives, none but
my 350 will work". That is rather presumptive of you and not a good
troubleshooting attitude either. In summary, get your friend a newer drive
so s/he can get moving and get yourself another Plus to experiment on at
your leisure.

good luck,

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