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Table of Contents for this issue:
re: Games for an SE
Dying date battery on a Classic II
HD from IIcx to Quadra 950
Old NEC Monitor
Booting 7.0 from external HD on a Plus
Plus serial communication
Screen problems Mac Plus
Printing to HP DJ870Cxi from Mac SE
new oldster
I must have a StyleWriter
How to paint a Classic Mac?
FreePPP or MacPPP
Classic II vs PPC Mac
Broken Mac Classic
Plus Power Supply
considering buying Mac 512, need info!
Old Macs and NT
Color Classic
Connecting PC & Mac SE
Problems with Mac Plus/HD!
help! zterm+system 5+gv teleport gold II??
AUTOEXEC.BAT on a Classic Mac?
Problems with Mac Plus/HD!

Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:42pm
From: chase
To: Classic Posts
Re: re: Games for an SE

I am very fond of some shareware games produced by Ingemar Ragnemalm.
Not all are appropriate for a black-and-white computer, but some
are, and they're all small and fun.

Send mail to Ingemar Ragnemalm for more info. I went looking for his web page or the ftp
site, couldn't find either. The shareware fee was something
like $15, and the software is absolutely worth it.


Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:42pm
From: mbellman
To: Classic Posts
Re: Another SE/30 question

There's a simm next to the 8 memory slots called ROMSIMM1. It is taller
and appears to have 64 pins. Is this Cache RAM? VRAM? DO I even need it
on the board?

The latches that hold it in place are broken so I will have to use a
rubberband or something else to ensue it stays in the slot.

Thanks all!

Michael Bellman


I am under the impression that in this computer (and the IIsi) the
ROM SIMM is present in certain computers and is in those computers
needed for proper operation.

Apple's word on the subject is: "If it's there, don't take it
out. If it's not there, don't put it in."


Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:43pm
From: Patric_Guntert
To: Classic Posts
Re: Dying date battery on a Classic II


Can anyone help me? my Classic II appears to be displaying all the symptoms
of a Mac with a dying date battery i.e. on boot up it imagines that it is
living in the early fifties and it keeps putting Appletalk on the printer

Can anyone tell me where the battery is and how to swap it out?
Any help would very much obliged - as you can probably tell I have never
had the top of the box and since I love my Mac I do not want to screw it

Thanx in advance

Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:44pm
From: delse
To: Classic Posts
Re: HD from IIcx to Quadra 950

Guys -

I'm trying to install a 80mb hd from a deceased IIcx into a
Quadra 950, but no luck. I've got power to it (verified), and the
scsi cable (position A) to it, but when I boot it from floppy, it does
not recognize it or find it.

I know for a fact that this HD is ok, b/c my Classic found it no problem
when I swapped it out.

The only differece that I can tell is that the Quadra has an additional
little cable to it from a little black box that you can change the numbers from
0 thru 9 on this some sort of thing that assigns a value to the HD or
something? No one here seems to know what to do with the extra cable....

any suggestions?

Doran Else

Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:44pm
From: fremontappel
To: Classic Posts
Re: CD-ROM/memory/Plus

Two questions for this great list that has hooked me on the 9 inch world.
I'm now working on my third 9 inch Mac, a Plus. I missed alot of fun
computer years and am trying to catch up.

1. Can I hook an external CD-ROM drive to my Mac Plus? (7.1, 4MB RAM,
MicroMac Accelerator)

Does anyone know where I can get the Connectix Compact Virtual software?
I got the MicroMac accelerator for my Plus and find that this software is
no longer available from either MicroMac or Connectix. It is supposed to
act like RAM doubler and I would love to break that 4MB barrier on my Mac



Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 6:44pm
From: robertson
To: Classic Posts
Re: Old NEC Monitor

I have an old NEC Monitor that I used with an Adam (computer?)
way back before I bought the wonderful SE. I'm wondering if
I could use this with my LC III & what kind of cable
hook=up it would take. JC1215MA is on the front, & it's a
color monitor. It hooked to the Adam with TV/stereo-like
connectors. What do you guys think? I *love* this list,
I have learned SO much! Thank you all.



Well, the NEC monitor is most likely a NTSC monitor,
which means it lacks the resolution and connections
needed to run on a computer other than something like an
Apple // or Commodore 64. In theory, you could buy an
expensive converter to connect it to the mac, but you'd be
paying a lot for inferior image quality to a normal monitor


To: Classic Posts
From: allenw
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:45:38 -0500
Subject: Booting 7.0 from external HD on a Plus

So I got all set up with a Mac Plus, 4MB, new analog board, and decide to
hook up a HD. I take this 80MB drive, hook it up to my other machine
(LCIII), format it, install 7.0 w/Tune-Up, hook it up to my Plus, and turn
it on. And wait... And eventually get a flashing disk... No startup disk
found. So I try it again. Same thing. Norton can't find anything wrong.
I would try to boot my LCIII w/it, but it needs 7.1 or later. Anybody have
any idea what went wrong?

- Chris

To: Classic Posts
From: ogm
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:46:08 -0500
Subject: Plus serial communication

I have aquired a Mac plus with 4 meg of ram runing system 6. I would
like to transfer files from my Pentium/Win 95 machine to the Mac via a serial plug with a
mini din8 to db 25m cable.

Is this possible via "Direct cable connection" in Win 95 and an app like

What steps must I take on the Mac?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



You will need what is called a "null modem" cable. It's a
special kind of serial cable that tricks both computers into
thinking they're both attatched to modems, instead of each other.

Other than that, it should work.


To: Classic Posts
From: junior69
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:46:38 -0500
Subject: PDS VIDEO CARDS - Performa


I have an old Performa 550 running system 7.1P6. I've been tying to set
up an external monitor to this beast. I have recently purchased a
1724PD video card from Micro Conversions (MacMall).

When it works, it works great however, randomly on startup (and/or
restart), I get an error message informing me of a "SYSTEM BUS ERROR"
and I'm offered a restart button. This happens after the happy mac and
my startup screen appear but before the cdevs start loading.

Sometimes it'll restart fine and other times I'll have to repeat the
restart several times before I get a good boot.

The vendor hasn't heard of this problem and I'm now on my second board.
I've tried with extensions disabled, zapping the pram, but to no avail.
It's most annoying because of it's randomness !!!

Has anyone heard of this problem ??? Is this a compatibility problem, a
timing problem, system software ???

I'd appreciate any and all help offered.


To: Classic Posts
From: W.F.Gaasendam
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:47:08 -0500
Subject: Screen problems Mac Plus

I have a Mac Plus that has a screen problem. When I start my Mac, the
screen works fine. But when I enter a boot disk in the 800k drive,
most of the time the screen goes blank for about ten minutes. Then
it lights up and I can see the desktop. After this the screen works
the way it should work. When I boot from a hard disk, the screen
mostly works fine. But as soon as I use the 800 K- drive, the screen
goes black. Apparently there is some connection with diskette-drive
activity and the screen in the first ten minutes. When the screen is
warm(?), all is normal again. What can I do to solve this problem?

Thanks in advance for your answer

Fred Gaasendam

To: Classic Posts
From: kwberes
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:47:40 -0500
Subject: Printing to HP DJ870Cxi from Mac SE

Dear Classic Mac enthusiasts,

Does anyone have any recommendations for using a Hewlett-Packard DeskJet
870Cxi printer with a Mac SE? I have two computers, a PowerCenter 120 and a
Macintosh SE (with Mobius 68030 accelerator and 16MB RAM.) While I have had
some luck using Chuck's Printer Driver from the SE, I would REALLY like to
use an Appletalk-compatible driver, so I can network the two computers and
the printer. The problem with using HP's driver is it requires Color
Quickdraw. Any ideas?

Also, if anyone else is using Chuck's Printer Driver (or any other driver)
to print to a DJ870, I would like to know how they have the driver

Thanks for your help!

Ken Beres

To: Classic Posts
From: milhug
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:48:12 -0500
Subject: new oldster

I have a Power PC and just acquired a Plus at a yard sale. We have 2
immediate questions: This machine has an external hard drive attached to
it; a Protege from CompuAdd, 40 MB drive, and an attachment on the top:
System Saver Mac Kensington. Is this good? How should they be powered
up-everything left on but the Kensington? what is it? Also we can't seem to
find a typing tutor pgm. What would a good one be, and where to find it?

thanks, gretta


Leave the system saver connected. It should contain a fan,
which is very useful on the Mac Plus as it has no fan and will do
nasty things like heating to very high temperatures.


To: Classic Posts
From: ochavez
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:48:12 -0500
Subject: I must have a StyleWriter

I urgently need a StyleWriter (the original first SW), or two. I have been
looking for it in Mexico, and can't find one. It has to be in working
condition, and not very expensive, since I'll have to pay for shipping it
to Mexico.

Oscar Chavez

To: Classic Posts
From: dbx
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:48:42 -0500
Subject: How to paint a Classic Mac?

Hello List!

Does anyone know of a safe way to paint a classic Mac housing (specifically
an SE/30) that won't screw up the surface? For some reason, I have this bug
to paint the little guy, but I don't want to melt it...

What kinds of paint are harmful to the housing? Is there a recommended
procedure? I found a reference on the web on how to do this, but the link
had expired.

Also, as an aside, can the front part of a Classic housing replace the
front part of an SE/30 housing? The Classic is very nice looking, while the
SE/30 leaves something to be desired in aesthetics. ;-)

My girlfriend says I have too much time on my hands...

Thanks in advance,

To: Classic Posts
From: hilal
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:49:12 -0500
Subject: FreePPP or MacPPP

hello everybody,

this is not really a classic mac question, but i have been using freePPP
on my IIci to connect to the web (emailer and netscape). am my missing or
gaining anything by using freePPP instead of the apple-sanctionned macPPP?


To: Classic Posts
From: Goos
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:50:12 -0500
Subject: Classic II vs PPC Mac

Hi folks. I wanted to switch from Windows to Macs in late 1995. I made this
decision slowly. I tried out the Mac LC IIs at the campus computer clusters
off and on for six months. They seemed stable and easy to use.

I went to the various computer stores. I wanted to buy two Performa 578s,
one for work, one for home. I loved the one-piece design (still do). I was
told, "DON'T buy an '040 Mac!!! Copland is coming! You'll need a PPC Mac to
run Copland. DON'T buy something that will be orphaned in less than a

Well, the salesmen scared me into buying PPC Macs. I bought a Power Mac 7100
for work and a Performa 6214 for home. I have been thoroughly unimpressed
with their stability and performance. Stability is horrible for both
machines. I've had every OS since 7.5. Every upgrade promised more
stability. That was bunk. They are all unstable, even with the minimum set
of extensions. Even with 7.6.1 they both crash at least once a day,
sometimes four times a day. I've tried all of the suggested fixes (rebuild
desktop, zap PRAM, re-install System software, Conflict Catcher) without

All I can conclude is that Apple deserves all of the financial trouble it's
in. They sold a lot of people a lot of unstable PPC systems, and they
deserve to lose business. That's why I didn't buy OS 8. They promised me
more stability with 7.5 release 2, 7.6 and 7.6.1 but didn't deliver.

So, my kids are using the Performa at home a lot, so I started looking for a
second Mac. Instead of spending another $2000-2500 for a PPC crasher, I
bought a hardly-used Classic II for less than $100.

I did a speed test of the Performa 6214 versus the Classic II. The tests
were not scientific (MIPS, BLIPS, or whatever), it was only a test of some
things that I could understand. The results are listed below:

Speed comparison

Mac Classic II (16 mHz '030, 6 megs RAM, System 7.1) VERSUS Mac Performa
6214 (75 mHz PPC 603, 16 megs RAM, System 7.6.1)

Times are stated in minutes:seconds. Winner is marked by an asterisk.

[MODERATOR: This table's data may be scrambled. The formatting was
damaged in transit.]

Classic II P6214

Boot computer 1:45 1:03*

Insert floppy disk 0:13 0:05*

and have icon appear on desktop

Load Claris 0:18* 0:24

Works 4

Time for a file requestor
to appear after giving the
"File-Open" command 0:05 0:03*

Load a CW file
from floppy disk 0:06* 0:07

500 words with
2000 words 2:14 0:11*

Do a word count of a
500 word document 0:10 0:06*

Final score.....The PPC Mac=4 points, The '030 Classic=3 points. The PPC
blew the Classic away on one test. The other tests showed either a win by
the Classic or a very close performance.

Conclusion 1...PPC performance VERY disappointing. A 75 mHz PPC computer
should have blown away a lowly '030 Classic II on every test.

Conclusion 2...Those of you who think you are missing a lot by not having a
PPC Mac, think again.

Conclusion 3...The Classic II almost never crashes. The Power Mac 7100 and
Performa 6214 crash all the time. You are buying misery with a PPC Mac.


To: Classic Posts
From: emmak
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:50:44 -0500
Subject: Broken Mac Classic


after looking for a compact mac for ages I have just found one in need of
attention - a classic mac. On bootup all I get is the sad mac with a top
error string of 0000005 and a lower one of 00EF00FF, with occasional
0000001's with and different errors underneath. The hard disk comes up quite
happily - at least I can hear it coming up and it seems happy, but attempts
to boot with a system 6.08 floppy fail - the mac doesn't seem to even access
the disk. (and I got a 11ci at work to boot on it so that's not the

I had slight success using command option shift delete to try and force it
to boot from the floppy - a couple of times out of about 30 reboots I got a
ching and a grey screen, but I didn't get as far as a happy mac before it
crashed back to sad mac. I've tried the zap the pram keypress, and will try
the boot from rom tonight ( having only just read about it)

I have several questions -

am I right in thinking the 00000005 error means the mac can't access the ram?

If so might I just need to reseat the ram?

Can I force it to boot from the floppy?

Is this error something like the logic board - a hardware issue that I will
need to replace?

Does anyone have any suggestions - I'm new at compacts though I mended a

Do any UK users know of good parts sources?

Do any UK users know where I might get a torx screwdriver that will get the
case off if need be?

Sorry for such a long post, and all the questions, but basically this
machine is mine if I get it working - and I am very keen to do so.


To: Classic Posts
From: klcheshire
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:51:14 -0500
Subject: Plus Power Supply

I am new to the list so please forgive me if this is a stupid question.

The screen on my Plus is blanking out, a friend of mine's plus did the
same thing and the repair shop said it was the power supply, replaced it
and it works fine.

Now mine is doing the same thing. Can I do the repair myself? If so
can anyone recommend a place on the web where I can buy the power


To: Classic Posts
From: woodardd
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:51:44 -0500
Subject: considering buying Mac 512, need info!

I recently have seen a couple of Mac 512 machines for sale at
local thrift stores. Now, I realize that these things are not going to do
anything stellar, but their compactness appealed to me. Basically, I
think it would be a nice unit for word processing and perhaps for e-mail.
(I hope it will do vt100 emulation) I saw one with nothing but the base
unit (no power supply, nothing) for $25, and then last Tuesday I saw one
with a mouse, external floppy, printer, etc., for $50. I was about to buy
it, but when it powered up, all it had on the monitor was a big question
mark. I don't know much about macs, so I figured something must be wrong
with it.

Does anyone know how fast of an external modem the Mac 512 can
handle? Are there a decent number of terminal emulation programs and word
processing programs available? Also, can you add a hard drive, or upgrade
the memory at all? Frankly, I'm getting into classic computers. I just
bought a Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, and an Amiga 600. I like them because
they have a bunch of old games I played as a kid, and you can't really
waste money upgrading them like I have on my IBM. I've wasted enough
money upgrading my IBM clones in the past 4 years to go on a vacation
around the world, easily. The worst thing is that then the computer ends
up being worth only $100 or so due to being obsolete. I figure that when
you buy something that has already been "obsolete" for a while, you get
your money's worth and more.

Anyway, I'm hoping that some of you guys might be able to help me
out with some basic software. If so, I might go back and buy the thing,
unless you advise me to look for another model or something. I thought
that with the printer, floppy and all the cables, it was probably worth
the $50. I'll appreciate any tips or hints you send my way.


P.S. - were there many strategy games or role playing games for this

To: Classic Posts
From: jerryfs
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:52:14 -0500
Subject: Old Macs and NT

I can't get our old Macs (Color Classic, LC II) to connect to the campus NT 4.0
server (running Services for Macintosh). I've tried this using many
different system configurations (7.1, 7.5.3, 7.5.5; MacTCP, OpenTransport;
Microsoft UAM) but the results are *always* the same: the NT server shows
up in the Chooser, but an actual connection can never be made. Sometimes I
get a login window, sometimes not; but I *always* get messages (different
ones) saying that the server can't be found, the connection has been
interrupted, try again later, etc.

On the same physical connection (and using the same Farallon LC ethernet
card) I have used a number of PowerMacs, and they all work fine.

Does anyone know what the problem is between NT and older Macs? Aside from
driving me nuts, this problem is adding ammo to the IS folks who would
just as soon get rid of the our beloved Macs here.

Thanks, Jerry Smith

To: Classic Posts
From: Lorenzo141
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:52:44 -0500
Subject: Color Classic

This list is the greatest!

Anyway, I'm writing about the Color Classic. I am thinking of purchasing one
for my friend, but I am scared that I won't be able to run programs that
require a 640 x 480 resolution. Does anyone have any of the following
programs and run them successfully?

1. After Dark
2. AOL 3.0 for 68k Macintosh
3. Microsoft Word 6.0.1

Also, I have found a website that explains how to change the resolution by
altering the hardware inside the Color Classic. If anyone knows any
authorized service place that will attempt this, please tell me. Thanks!


To: Classic Posts
From: xdrvm01
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:53:16 -0500
Subject: Connecting PC & Mac SE

I have one Pentium based PC running Windows95 (connected to I-net via
modem)and now I got one old Mac SE (4/40) with 800kB floppy disk. On Mac
there is System 6.0.4 and I would like to install newer system. I`ve
found system files on I-net but I don`t know how to transfer files from
Pc to Mac ! Is it possible to connect these two computers with cable or
something like that ? Thanx

To: Classic Posts
From: douglas_dennis
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:53:48 -0500
Subject: Problems with Mac Plus/HD!

I am a teacher, & I was given(Donated) a Mac Plus with all the original
software & I have a 20 meg SCSI hard drive! I connected them with a SCSI cable & The
Mac Plus did not read or acknowledge the hard drive. I loaded a copy of the
original software (Sys. 3.2!!!) on the hard drive & the Mac still did not
know the hard drive was there!


The Mac has only 1 meg of ram, and a 800k(or maybe a 400k) disk drive!
What can I do?

-Also,If it's the low memory, then where can I get that?



On another computer, try installing System 6.0.8 onto the hard drive.
3.2 might not even support them. You can max out the RAM to 4 megs
for about $10-20, which will greatly improve your possibilities.

It has an 800K drive.


To: Classic Posts
From: mdu
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:54:20 -0500
Subject: help! zterm+system 5+gv teleport gold II??

Trying to help two friends who own a Classic. They'd like access to email
via a shell acct. I gave 'em a GV teleport gold II modem. (Their Classic
has System 5 and 2 mb RAM.) The account is set up and working fine, at
least as far as I can tell. After many failed attempts, I dialed in on my
own computer and everything looked fine. On their system, though, when we
dial in via Zterm (v .9) we can only type a login and a password before
gibberish and wierd words start scrolling across the screen. Seems to be
English, but with lots of characters transposed or garbled for some reason
no one at the ISP can figure out. Been over and over this with the ISP and
no luck on fixing zterm settings so far. So...

A) Any especially suspicious settings on Z term that I should experiment with?

B) Is there an easier way to get my friends access to a simple shell
account for email only?

Many many thanks for any advice or a reference to a specific month in the
archive version of this group...



Are you sure you're getting shell and not PPP access? That would
explain the odd characters after a perfectly normal login.


To: Classic Posts
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:54:20 -0500
Subject: AUTOEXEC.BAT on a Classic Mac?

I have just read your question published in classicmac the 9th of

It is very easy to lauch automatically a software just after booting
a mac. You can program it just with the mouse.

** Before all, I must tell you two things :

- I am French and a french system of MacOs, so that's why I doesn't
know the exact names of the menus in English.

- I doesn't know the number of the system of your mac, my procedure
work with the system 6.0.3. You can find the number of the system of
your Mac Plus in "About the finder..." or "About the Macintosh..." in
the Apple Menu when the Finder is open.

** Well, in fact, just select on the finder the icon of x10 Controller
with 1 click of mouse (do not lauch it.), the icon turns black.
Then select the Item "Set the boot..." just over the "Reboot" item of
the menu on the extreme right of the menu bar.

You will open a message box, that will allows you to select the first
software open when the Macintosh is launched.

(Finder, the software you selected, a desk accessory or the Multifinder, that will allow you to work with
several softwares at one time, but needs a lot of memory.).

** How to turns it off ?

From the software you lauched, just quit it, then you returns
automatically on the finder.

Then returns in the message box and select "Boot the Macintosh with
the finder.".

That's all.

David Rinsveldt.

To: Classic Posts
Date: 28 Sep 97 14:54:52 -0500
Subject: Problems with Mac Plus/HD!

Hello !

I have two other questions to ask you :

1) Which version of the system did you download ? (The Mac Plus may
not work with version over 6.X.X., the 512 K with even older

2) Did you use the installation program of Apple to set up your
system automatically ? You can build a "special system" just for you
Mac plus or your mac 512 K

David Rinsveldt

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