Macintosh Classic II

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Table of Contents for this issue:
[Q] FDD reads but won't write
Color Classic Screen Power Saver
Re: Classic Macs Digest 971009
Re: Classic Macs Digest 971009 - Book
This board
Speedometer tests
Re: color for the se/30(what's a user's group)
system 7.1 update
Lapis ColorServer LC & PDS/30
Floppy Won't Recognize Systems Disks
SE Accelerator Search Continues
Ram for a Plus
Re: Motherboards and chips
Torx, Torx, Torx
Upgrade for Mac IIvi
Sonnet/MicroMac Speedometer Tests
II/IIx 4Mb PALs & Mac286 dos
Monitors from afar

From: Lorenzo141
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
To: Classic Posts
Subject: Macintosh Classic II

Can anyone recommend some good word processor and spreadsheet programs that
will run on a Macintosh Classic II? Thanks so much!


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 13:35:53 +0100 (BST)
From: Dr Rod Hiorns
To: Classic Posts
Subject: [Q] FDD reads but won't write

Hi, I'm looking for a hardware guru who can answer this one!

My mate's got an SE/30 which has a floppy disk controller that can read
disks but not write to them. What component is most likely to be at fault?

I have checked the problem exists on the logic board by exchanging drives
with other machines. I have used an ohm-meter to check that all the inline
resistors to the 19 way D-connector are separate from each other and of
the correct value (45R). I have checked the connection from the ribbon
cable and D type ports to Apple part 344S0061A (the SWIM chip?) for the
for the signals PH3 & WRREQ/ and to Apple's 344S0689C for WR, but I can't
find anything physically wrong in the connections right up to the pin.

When the drive fails to write, finder error 11 comes up (bus error?)
probably because of a timeout ... although the disk does appear to have
some data written on it (a couple of sectors when formatting) when examined
afterwards by another machine ... so what do I check next?

If anyone out there knows the protocol for communicating with the FDD or
can suggest what to check/replace please drop me a line by email. I'd
really appreciate it. Thanks,


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 06:41:52 -0700
From: Thomas Carlson
To: Classic Posts
Subject: Color Classic Screen Power Saver

In reply to Lorenzo 141, the "program that turns the screen
off after a user definable period of time" sounds like the Screen
Power Saver that is activated in the Screen control panel in System
7.1 or later.

Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 09:36:39 +0100
To: Classic Posts
From: Jon Gaines
Subject: Re: Classic Macs Digest 971009

Not so fast, Mike!

It is possible to create 400K disks on SOME PPC's, but not all. Using
Disk Copy 4.2 under System 7.5.x, I was able to make a good disk on a
friend's PPC machine (was it a 5200?), but I absolutely can not do it on my
Power Mac 9600. Oh, sure, it makes a disk that *looks* like it would work,
but it will not boot a 128K Mac. Oddly, it will boot properly on a 512Ke
and later machines (HFS ROMs). The same disk image will successfully create
400K boot disks all day long on my old '040 machine. I don't know why my
9600 will not do it; I even tried swapping its floppy drive for an older
one to see if that made any difference, but it did not.

Finally, the OS makes a difference, too. I think that any OS later than
7.5.5 will choke on the 400K format (*writing* to 400K, that is).

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:25:09 +0200
To: Classic Posts
From: Domenico e Filippo Mammola
Subject: Re: Classic Macs Digest 971009 - Book

>What I really wanted was his older book:
>Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets
>Anybody got it and want to sell it?


I think you can still find this book:
Title: Macintosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets
Imprint: SAMS
Author: Larry Pina
ISBN: 0672484528
Publication Date: 01-1990
Retail Price: 34.95

in mcp bookstore (


From: NeonGooch
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:57:53 -0400 (EDT)
To: Classic Posts
Subject: This board

>Hi everyone. Could anyone tell me if there's a list like this one for discussing higher-end Macs? Just got a Quadra.

Although this board is for Classic Macs with the amount of upgrading done by
members this seems to apply to any Mac other than a PowerPC. Members please
flame me if I'm out of line <g>.

So how about it? Are we all ready to call everything pre-PPC a classic Mac?

- perhaps I should duck...

From: NeonGooch
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
To: Classic Posts
Subject: Speedometer tests

>If anybody has an interest, I can post the results of Speedometer tests
>comparing the Presto and the ThunderPro Cache.

Hi Jon,

Please by all means do send them here. Part of working with older hardware is
trying to keep up with all those out there with LAGS (latest and greatest
syndrome). We only need the revelent tests of your Mac with and without
upgrades, in a text form.

I can say my $49 MicroMac upgrade (Performer w/oFPU) has worked well, MacWeb
2.0 won't run though, but everything else that a Plus should run (that I
have) works, and a few things that require an 030 CPU (not many, you still
have old ROM when you upgrade). My results show a speed increase of 245%,
with improvements in every area, even SCSI speed (up by about 12%). I run
system 7.1 and a Quantum 125 meg HD (in an old HD 20 case, looks real good
under the Plus).


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:06:20 +0100
To: Classic Posts
From: Donna Hood Pointer
Subject: Re: color for the se/30(what's a user's group)

WHAT IS A USER GROUP? A user group is a group of people usually in a
certain geographic area who all use or are interested in a particular type
or brand of computer. They form a group or club discuss pertinent topics,
help each other out with problems. There are MANY Macintosh User's groups
in the United States. Call 1-800-SOS-APPL to find out where the User's
Group nearest to you is. Or contact a dealer near you and ask. The User's
Group Store is a place where you can buy stuff at great prices and they
give points to your user's group so the group can buy things( like
computers to use for their meetings). The User's Group here in Ann Arbor,
Michigan, where I live has about 300 members. They have a web site at

By the way I just had the Lapis color card installed. It cost me $45 to
have it installed at a local mac service place. I don't relish cracking the
case myself. (This included a 10% labor discunt because I am a Mactechnics
member). The board cost $69--so I now can attach a color external monitor
to my SE/30. Hooray!

Good luck,
Donna Pointer

>Hello Donna,

>I have an SE/30 and I am very interested in connecting an external monitor.
>My question is, what is a usergroup, and how do I join?


Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:39:07 +0100
>To: Classic Posts
>From: Donna Hood Pointer
>Subject: color for the se/30

>"brand-new for old macs". The new UserGroupStore catalog 1-800-350-4842
>has LapisColor PDS/3 24-bit color cards for $69. This is compatible with
>the se/30 and MAC IIsi (PDS adapter). It offers :

>24-bit color at 640x480 for 13 and 14 inch screens
>24-bit color at 832x624 for 16 and 17 inch screens
>8-bit color at 1024x768 for 19 and 20 inch screens.
>You must be a member of a user group to purchase from them.
>Plus this in, add any 14 inch used color monitor, and PRESTO you have a
>large screen color surfing ,machine for well under $200. Donna Pointer

Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:31:05 +0100
To: Classic Posts
From: Donna Hood Pointer
Subject: system 7.1 update

Re your query:

> I recently upgraded my SE from System 6.0.3 to System 7.1.
But I was wondering, now that I'm on 7.1, how can I upgrade to 7.1.2 or 7.1.3, etc?
Some of the software I'm trying to use says I need System Software 7.1.2 or
greater. Is there an archive where I can download this?

You need two diskettes. System 7.1 Update 3.0 Tune-up. I have them you run
them and they update the 7.1 system, then you create also a new Tools Disk
to boot from. I paid $10 to get them from my local dealer, even though
Apple said they should be free. I guess my dealer is not that friendly.
They are on hi-density diskettes, but I don't think they are that big. They
would each probably fit on lo-density. I am attaching one siskette with
this. I'll send the other one separately, since I don't know whether I can
attach 2.

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:17:42 -0400
From: Ian Sanderson
Subject: Lapis ColorServer LC & PDS/30 - 17 Video Card for SE/30
To: Classic Posts


I'm new to this list. After the repeated deaths of my Powerbook 180 I
rushed out and bought a very cheap SE/30 to make revisions to my Master's
Thesis in a hurry. It is now running on 20 Mg RAM and a 200Mg HD. Total
Cost: $430 (Australian).

It has a Lapis ColorServer LC & PDS/30 video card which I cannot get to
work. The manufacturer kindly mailed me a control panel "DisplayServer
PDS/30". I placed it in the Control Panels folder. When I try to open it,
I get an alert saying, 'The control panel "DisplayServer PDS/30" cannot be
used now. There may be not enough memory available, or the control panel
may be damaged.'

Has anyone used this card successfully? Is there another file required?
Does anybody have an uncorrupted copy of the control panel?

Regards from Ian Sanderson.

Subject: Floppy Won't Recognize Systems Disks
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 08:03:15 -0600
From: Eric Riedl
To: Classic Posts

I've got a Performa 400 with a problem -- it will read disks it has
recently formatted, but it won't read the original set of systems disks
(which I need to reintall the networking extensions).

The systems file is on an external La Cie hard drive and everything boots
OK. Anyone know how I can get the install disks (or even Disk Tools, to
update the driver software) to read?

E Riedl

Subject: SE Accelerator Search Continues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 08:15:38 -0700
From: Kurt Bauer
To: Classic Posts

I'm still searching for a new or used PDS accelerator for a Mac SE that
has a PDS pass-through for an Asante PDS Ethernet NIC.

One Classic Mac'er says that the AE Transwarp 030/25mhz PDS card has the
connector to imply a pass-through but cannot find any reference to it in
the manual. Does anyone know?

I understand that Sonnet and MicroMac are still selling accelerators but
still do not know if the pass-through capability is there.

Can anyone point me to another source for used/discontinued accelerators?
I can use the assistance.

Kurt Bauer

Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:00:21 +0200
To: Classic Posts
From: Domenico e Filippo Mammola
Subject: Ram for a Plus

What kind of SIMMs I must buy to expand the RAM of my Plus?
Are 4 * 1 Mbytes 30 pins 100 ms SIMMs right?
I know this is an old question, but I was not able to find the correct
answer in Classic-Post archives.

Somebody can help me?



I'm pretty sure this is the correct RAM. Note that if you get RAM
with a faster access speed (say, 70ms), which is more common,
that'll work too.


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:55:59 +0200
To: Classic Posts
From: Domenico e Filippo Mammola
Subject: Re: Motherboards and chips

>Can any of you tell me where I might be able to find:

>2 Classic II Motherboards (that work)
>2 Chip sets for Mac SEs to upgrade them to Superdrive

Take a look at


Snort, music zine:

Subject: Torx, Torx, Torx
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 12:12:57 -0500
From: leyte
To: Classic Posts

Do any UK users know where I might get a torx screwdriver that will get the
case off if need be?

Alas, no. I tried and failed :-(

The usual mail-order companies may still have 'Mac Cracker' kits, even
though they don't put them in the catalogue any more. It's a very long
3/16" allen (hex) wrench, otherwise known as a Torx T-15.

Erm, 3/16 inch allen keys are compeletely different to Torx T-15 bits. You
need a Torx T-15 bit.

I'm a little puzzled at all the talk about how hard it is to get a T-15

Go to most any auto parts store and ask for an S-K brand T-15 screwdriver
and they will sell you one for about $9.00. It's a bit steep but it is the ideal
tool for the MAC's with the screw recessed in the handle on top of the case.
The S-K blade is 6" long and easily reaches in to get those two screws. It also
has a nice handle to get good torque. If you don't want to spend as much money
and have a "Parts Plus" Western Auto store nearby, they had a box of cheapo
screwdrivers for 89 cents. The blade is a little shorter but can easily be modified
by grinding off a little of the handle until the blade extends far enough into the
MAC handle.

For those who like to make something useful out of ordinary shop scrap,
do like I did. I took a simple Torx driver, pulled the handle off and
took a welding rod and "welded" the welding rod to the "handle" end of
the Torx bit. This extended the bit the length of the welding rod, then I
took the handle and pushed it back on with a bit of epoxy in the handle.
You will also have to knock any rosin coating off the welding rod. If you
have a friend who is into welding, or your school has a welding shop ask
them to do it for you.


Subject: Upgrade for Mac IIvi
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 97 17:49:05 -0700
From: Kurt Bauer
To: Classic Posts

I was cruising the The Low End Mac User site at
and found a gold mine. Lots of scoop about classics. One interesting
point was the upgrade path for a Mac IIvi to a Quadra 700, Quadra 650, or
PM 7100. What sorts of changes are required to make these various
upgrades? I wouldn't mind a bit of a project.

Kurt Bauer

To: Classic Posts
From: Jon Dockery
Subject: Sonnet/MicroMac Speedometer Tests
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:31:11 -0700

Hey Folks,

Well, here are some Speedometer test results comparing Sonnet & MicroMac
accelerators with FPU for the Color Classic. Both sets of tests were done
using System 7.1.3 with 10 megs of RAM (the Micromac also packing an
additional 8 megs at the time) and a moderate INIT load (Disinfectant, Ram
Doubler, Quicktime 2.5, FWB CD-ROM toolkit, MacTCP & PPP, Stylewriter 1200,
and their affiliated INITS, Control panels, etc.). As my Speedometer test
for the MicroMac did not include a disk rating (probably because Speed
Doubler was installed at the time), I've included Andrew Ludgate's
Speedometer numbers for his Classic under System 7.1.3 (though his did not
have an FPU) at the bottom of the posting. For the record, the Sonnet
Presto 040 is running a 25 Mhz 040 chip, and the MicroMac ThunderPro Cache
a 50 Mhz 030.

Performance Rating (Uses Mac Classic as 1.0)

Thunder Pro Presto 040
CPU: 12.08 15.23
Graphics: 6.93 10.39
Disk: n/a* 1.86
Math: 29.11 110.40
Overall PR: n/a* 20.62

Benchmark Results (Uses Mac Classic as 1.0)

KWhet 51.66 154.02
Dhry 6.68 23.73
Towers 5.74 20.39
Quicksort 8.68 17.37
Bubble Sort 13.86 19.48
Queens 11.80 21.04
Puzzle 10.83 19.62
Permute 9.49 21.96
Fast Fourier 29.00 128.32
F.P. Matrix 29.91 112.43
Int. Matrix 9.48 18.97
Sieve 15.41 8.65
Bench. Ave. 16.88 47.17

FPU Tests (Uses Mac II as 1.0)
FPU Fast Fourier 3.62 6.27
FPU KWhet 3.42 8.70
FPU F.P Matrix 3.60 9.53
FPU Ave. 3.55 8.16

Color Tests (Uses Mac II as 1.0)
Monochrome 1.84** 2.47
2 Bit 1.96** 2.45
4 Bit 2.03** 2.33
8 Bit 1.96** 1.76
Color Ave. 1.95** 2.33

(*) The best times rated for the P.R. tests by Andrew's non-FPU MicroMac
were as follows:

CPU: 12.08 Graf: 6.14 Disk: 0.79 Math: 12.48 P.R. Rating (Ave): 8.08

(**) In one of Andrew's Sys 7.1.3 tests (without INITs loaded), the
MicroMac matched or beat the Presto's Color Test numbers. I don't know if
my low MicroMac numbers were a result of an INIT problem, or a VRAM
accessing problem. Andrew's best numbers were as follows:

Mono: 2.46 2 Bit: 2.56 4 Bit: 2.54 8 Bit: 2.31 Color Ave: 2.47

Overall, the accelerators are fairly evenly matched in mundane everyday
operations. The Presto starts to take off in arcane mathematical
applications and search & sort applications (spreadsheets, Photoshop
filters, 300 page text inserts, etc.), sometimes running 3-to-5 times
faster than the ThunderPro. In my experience, the most notable speed
difference between the two has been with printer and modem operations,
where the Presto seems considerably faster. However, the Presto precludes
any extra RAM, eliminates the "1,000's of colors" mode, and won't support
any fun experiments with monitor size.

All this being said, our trusty moderator is probably correct when he
recommends buying a used '040 machine out right. I've had headaches with
both accelerators, and neither one of them is particularly cheap. I'd doubt
that either one of them will be as stable over the long run as a used
Performa or Quadra (though a Color Classic is a much more stylish piece of

Good luck, and I hope this is of some help.


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 20:18:35 +1100
To: Classic Posts
From: Bill Donald
Subject: II/IIx 4Mb PALs & Mac286 dos

I've had to send back my Micromac Diimo 030 accelerator (it didn't work
with my Mac II - despite their ad), so now:

Would anyone be interested in 4 - 4Mb PAL simms (suitable for a Mac
II/IIx), they're only 2 months old. US$85 (inc. post)

(I've also got a Mac286 DOS NuBus board(s), worth it if only to have a
laugh at how primitive the opposition was then)

Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 18:19:00 +1100
To: Classic Posts
From: Bill Donald
Subject: Monitors from afar

Has anyone ever bought a monitor from another part of the world? I've heard
they're 'tuned' for their location so they go wonky or something if used in
another location. I'm thinking of buying a US monitor for use in Australia.
k away in disgust leaving it to ?,?,? for a while. Come back 30 min. later
and it's booted from the external, begin to use it and the curser locks up
in the "select" mode again. Shut down, same scenerio again. Change the ram,
no change. Use the programmers key at startup and get a 0F00D, wait for the
bits beneath to cycle but they never quit cycling and never generate a
final sub code, so I can only guess at the component failure.

I've got another logic board coming, but I'd really like to know what's
happing here.

I suspect one of the rom chips or the scsi or floppy controller. I will
never be satisfied with just swapping out the boards.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Dennis Fletcher

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